MOO Discussion in Sitting Room, April 22, 1997

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I want to thank you all for a great list of sites. You've all

done a wonderful job finding new sites on the web for our page. What do

you think of the sites you've seen? Everyone seems to like a lot of what

he or she has seen. Any other opinions?"

Katy: "I love kids' sites b/c they appeal to my senses. Lots to see

and play with. Everyone likes to have fun!"

Kaye_Graham: "Every time I'd read a posting, I'd want to go check out

the site."

Matthew: "They can be fun for a while then they get a little dull.

The games I mean. Stuff on Literature is neat."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "How accessible have you found sites you've seen? Some I think

are very difficult to navigate. How do you think children find the sites?"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Why Matt?"

Matthew: "Most are pretty simple. Wizards of the Coast was pretty

complex."

Katy: "Just type in Muppets and go from there"

Matthew: "I am used to playing games designed for adults which are

much more complicated."

Liz_Altieri: "that Ben is with us and says that he has yet to find a

site that is hard to use."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "In what ways, Matt? How are 'kids games' different from 'adults'

games'? And how can you tell the difference?"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Hi Ben!"

Liz_Altieri: "(from Ben) Hi All!!!"

Katy: "How come they are so easy, Ben?"

Liz_Altieri: "I have a lot of experience and sites are generally set

up the same way so they get easier as you spend more time on the Web"

Matthew: "Kids games are usually pretty simple but the games I play

are either much more dificult. There is nothing more boring than an easy

game."

Liz_Altieri: "what games do you play mathew?"

Katy: "It's funny that Ben thinks they are not hard to navigate. My

mom just discvoered the INternet and she gets headaches from surfing. She

says it is just too hard to find things w/o the full address."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "What are some examples of games you like, Matt?"

Matthew: "Right now (well not right now but lately) I have been

playing a helicopter simulation game called Comanche 3. It is a fairly

complex simulator and I doubt a kid could play it successfully."

Matthew: "I know I couldn't when I was younger."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I don't think kids are nervous about using computers, and adults

often are. It took me years to become comfy with computers."

Katy: "Is it a question of dexterity or of brain power, Matt?"

Liz_Altieri's son Ben says I have several flight simulators that all have

complex intructions and they are not that hard to do. (I guess you just

gotta be a kid!)

Matthew: "Katy: both. Acutally controlling it requires lots of skill

(comes with practice) and the srategy of sneaking up on targets is reall

tough."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "How long have you been using computers, Ben?"

Matthew: "What age are you Ben?"

Liz_Altieri 's son Ben says about 2 years (that is competently) I am 12 btw

Katy: "At 12 I was still with Atari!"

Matthew: "at 12 I had a Apple IIC."

Kaye_Graham: "At 12 I was playing Monopoly--the board game. I

couldn't have envisioned what we're doing now!"

Katy: "We still use those at the CT!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Something I've noticed with a few younger kids is that, since

they're exposed to computers at a younger age than most of us are, they get

the practice in early and are pretty dextrous."

Matthew: "Oh I play monopoly on my pc frequently!"

Katy: "dextrous is not the word... they run all over computers and

then laugh when old kids like me get on and jerk and screech to "avoid"

dying!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Slight change in topic; what did you think of the on-line readings?"

Abby_Legg: "Most children I know, can use a computer better than I

can. They sit around and play games, as well as use the computer for

school projects. In fact, most of their school project require them to use

the computer.""

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Is that a good thing, Abby?"

Katy: "I could relate to the writer who couldn't frind anything with the internet. YOu gotta know where to look and htat comes with practice... something he didn't have"

Abby_Legg: "What that children are using computers or that they know

more than me?""

Maureen: " Using a computer is so second nature now. I don't know what

I would do without it sometimes"

Liz_Altieri: "Ben is on a break. I was really struck by how the images

of conflict and machismo that Warner discusses are absolutely powerful and

present in many of the game sites we visited."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Sorry Abby! That they're required to use computers in school."

Katy: "My first expericen with the "modern" computer was with a turtle

that I entered one letter directions and degrees into and the turtle moved.

Ex: R45 meant it would go 45 degrees to the right... Dark Ages compared to

now!"

Matthew: "If you can't find information on the web you just are not

trying hard enough. There is so much out there I usually find too much."

Katy: "My little borther takes SuperMario Bros to the extreme. If he

loses to one of my sisters, he makes them play until he wins... Maschismo,

yes"

Kaye_Graham: "I get easily diverted with sideline stuff when I'm

researching a topic on the web. You are always a click away from something

more fun than your original topic of research. "

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Yes, I was too Liz. And I was struck by how gendered many of the

sites seem to be. Some reviewers have made a big deal out of the fact that

there are more and more CDRoms and websites for girls."

Matthew: "Kaye: I do the same thing and a few hours later I get back

to the original topic."

Jeff_Stuart: "You have to watch who is publishing the information,

too. A lot of misinformation and disinformation out there."

Maureen: " I remember playing some game called Gold Rush, I think. It

was a hisotry game. You had to get to California without using up all of

your rations. Why I remember this I have no idea"

Matthew: "Maureen: sounds like The Oregon Trail. That was the only

"educational game"

Liz_Altieri: "yes but I've noticed in the reviews that they deal with

pretty insipid stuff: dating, movie stars, etc."

Abby_Legg: "No, there is no problem with children using computers in

school. I think computers in schools is a very good thing because the world

is moving towards more computer usage everyday. The only problem I see if

for the children who cannot afford computers at home. This might give

those children with computers at home an advantage over less privileged children"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "What kind of info is out there though? I find facts and research

all the time. It seemed strange to me that a journalist couldn't."

Matthew: "At my elementary school so everyone played it. The other

were math blaster and such"

Maureen: " Yes, the game was called Oregon trail!!! How did you

remember that game???"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "A lot of the time they do, Liz. High marks went to the

Babysitters' Club site! "

Abby_Legg: "One of my favorite games was 'Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego.""

Matthew: "Abby: people who have resources to do things other don't are

always going to have advantages over those who can't. Haveing computers at

school gives the lesser privilaged children a way to keep up."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Is research easier or harder to do on the web, do you think, b/c

you can be so easily distracted?"

Maureen: " I used to play Carmen all the time. I played it so much I

was an ace detective"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I like that game a lot, Abby. And SimLife."

Matthew: "Maureen I played it many times, and found a copy for my

younger sister when she started using a computer. What a great game!"

Katy: "Elizabeth ...ah but many journalists are into traditional forms

of infoseeking... calling, interviewing, heading to the library. Many of

the old school of journalism won't touch computers... still stick to those

typewriters and fact checkers"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Hmmmm....interesting Katy. I didn't know that."

Jeff_Stuart: "I think once you learn how to browse AND develop a

disciplined/focused approach, computersoffers faster research material."

Maureen: " I think that using the web for research is wonderful. All

the resources are at your fingertips. I do know that sometimes I

procrastinate and flip through various websites"

Liz_Altieri 's son Ben says it's easier to get to the information but only

if you stay focused

Liz_Altieri: "I've found this to be true too."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Did the 'Go to the Head of the Class' article give you the

computers in the schools figures?"

Abby_Legg: "I agree Matthew, but children who are forced to only learn

at school because they don't have the tools they need at home risk being

left far, far behind. I heard somewhere there is a program before the

school board which would alott money to buy computers for those children

who cannot afford them to have at home. Does anyone know about this?""

Katy: "SOme wonder how truthful the INternet is ... and warn to use

cautisously. I think that's funny b/c who says just b/c it is in a book

that it is TRUE? "

Maureen: " Matthew..I am so excited that you remember this game! I

thought I was losing my mind for a minute there"

Matthew: "I couldn't imagine doing any kind of school work with out a

computer."

Matthew: "Maureen: It is definately a classic."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I agree Katy, but you know, I tend to believe what I read, and

then I get shocked when I read a fact I know is untrue."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Abby, where is this program? In this area?"

Matthew: "I usually believe information if I find it in 2 or more

locations. This includes books, web sites, or whatever."

Katy: "But does giving a kid at computer at home take away from the

old school learning techniques that worked just fine for us? Like reading,

writing and 'rithmetic?"

Liz_Altieri: "I think the validity of information used as fact and

reported to others is like anything else. You need to cross reference."

Matthew: "you still have to read to get the info off the computer.

Writing is slowly (too slowly) being replaced by typing and arithmatic is

slowly getting there too."

Kaye_Graham: "I know my handwriting has disintegrated because I use

the computer. I wonder if penmanship is ever taught!"

Abby_Legg: "I think I heard about it from Wat Hopkins who is on the

Montgomery School Board. The program would 'loan' computers out to

children's parents for their kids school work and then at the end of

certain time period the computers would be returned or purchased for a very

low rate.""

Jeff_Stuart: "Katy, I think technology can help or hinder learning,

depending on how the teacher uses it."

Matthew: "The only time I write things out by hand is if I have to do

some in class work. I even type reminders to myself on the computer."

Maureen: " i think that while you have to stick to the basics, the

internet makes reading and writing more "manageable" I know that I write

alot more to friends now than ever because of the internet. It is nice to

flip throught the newspaper on the net and find articles that you want to

read. "

Abby_Legg: "I love Wat.""

Liz_Altieri responds to Maureen-I write to friends too but I still have a

hard time reading text on the computer. something about the feel of paper

and the look of the page!

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "The figures from Newsweek for American k-12 schools are: right

now the national average is 35 students per 1 multimedia computer; schools

spent 3.3 billion dollars in the 94-95 school year on computer material; it

will take at least 50 billion dollars over 5 years to give every 7 students

access to a computer; almost half of American teachers have little or no

technological training to work with the computers; most computers in

classrooms have no multimedia capabilities."

Matthew: "e-mail is best form of communication since the telephone!"

Katy: "Eliz... that's why when I am rich and famous, I'm gonna give

lots to my hometown to get them all computers... :) "

Jeff_Stuart: "I know this off the subject, but reading my personlized

news off the web saves a lot of paper (newspaper's value is short-term and t

hey are made of trees). Telephone books, magazines, and other short-term

items are placed on the web, too."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Abby, this sounds like a program in one of the Riner schools, in

a 6th grade class. I've a link to that site from the Hypermedia and

Education page."

Maureen: " I agree with the "feel of a page". I do print out alot of

the stuff that I do find on the net and read it. I just enjoy the

convenience of the internet. It makes life simpler sometimes"

Katy: "I have to agree with Liz... I like paper and the printed page.

It once was an artform."

Liz_Altieri: "and Elizabeth, I see interesting examples right here in

Montg. County. At the one school where I do my research there is only one

teacher who knows how to teach her students how to create a web page, a

Virginia "

Katy: "I don't know how to make a page!"

Matthew: "creating a web page is fairly easy until you start gettin

into the advanced stuff."

Liz_Altieri: "whoops, a Virginia Standard of learning for 5th grade."

Katy: "THese schools should hire poor college students to give

seminars on computer usage. They could use the nearest college's computer

room and pay the kids cheaply... that way a whole bunch could learn and it

would be cheaper than other methods.(i am not of course recommeding mysel

since html is a foreign lang. but you get the idea"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I prefer to read the hard copy, though I read a novel on a CDRom

late last year and it wasn't so bad. I prefer to do things on-line to save

paper, and only print what I want to keep. I have about 200 Netscape

bookmarks to sites of personal and professional interest, and that's saved

me hundreds of dollars!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Making web pages is easy, Katy."

Liz_Altieri: "that's my next goal for my own computer learning!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I really am not that great with computers, and I learned HTML

quickly (that's the language in which to write web pages) I've got a book

that teaches you, written by a friend of mine."

Kaye_Graham: "Claris Home Page makes it very simple. It even writes

its own code so you don't have to know html."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I like the idea, Katy!"

Liz_Altieri asks the name of the book.

Kaye_Graham: "Although I have to admit Claris Home Page is for sissies!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "HTML Plus! by James Powell. A new edition is starting in the

works now, but won't be out for a while."

Matthew: "The problem with programs like claris works is you don't

learn anything. If your goal is simple to turn out a page then they are

great but if you want to understand it do it yourself."

Jeff_Stuart: "As of this year, you don't have to know how to use HTML,

since the newest word processors automatically convert the document to web

format (HTML)."

Liz_Altieri: "wow!"

Kaye_Graham: "Matthew: you are so right. I'm going to get tough this

summer and learn from scratch!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "That can be tricky, though, Jeff. I've had some mess everything

up. But it helps!"

Katy: "you mean like the new WOrd?>"

Matthew: "Word '97 will do it."

Jeff_Stuart: "I think it's wise to know some HTML when creating or

teaching how to create homepages."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "To pull back to the reading a bit, did you find the article on

Humongous Entertainment informative? I read it, laughed, and then spent 3

months creating these sites!"

Matthew: "I haven't been to this link in a while so I don't know if it

is still around but I got my info from:

http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/Internet/WWW/HTMLPrimer.html"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I'll help you, Kaye. It'll be fun!"

Katy: "I loved the Humonguous site! and read the article afterwards.

It was kinda weird to find out that PUTT PUTT is on its way out :("

Kaye_Graham: "It's interesting to see how many people are involved in

making a game--writers, animators, technicians, etc. A huge collaboration"

Liz_Altieri: "can you believe that in less than 15 seconds Ben copied

that address and psted it to notebook page for me to access later!!!!"

Abby_Legg: "I wish I had some of those programs they described in the humongous article.""

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I'd never heard of them before, and now I see HE stuff everywhere!"

Kaye_Graham: "Is Ben for hire???"

Maureen: " I have to create a homepage for my other web class"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Go Ben!"

Jeff_Stuart: "Is that the one where they designed a character without

a name? Risky business!"

Abby_Legg: "I thought it was interesting that so many people went into

making the game too.""

Liz_Altieri: "no he's mine"

Liz_Altieri: "and Ben typed that too!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "I was surprised they pulled it off, actually. "

Matthew: "The computer gaming business is one of the most diverse I

have ever seen. They use people from just about every disipline."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "What class, Maureen? What are you going to do? I know I created

mine, didn't have a clue what to put on it, and then put all this junk there."

Matthew: "There is also such a wide variety of games out there and

each one requires someoneelse with special skills."

Liz_Altieri: "It was all new and pretty exciting to me> I want to have

Ben read the article because he wants to be a 3-D digital animator for

media."

Katy: "That's the Siegle class, eh Mo? "

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Has anyone visited the virtual reality sites?"

Katy: "my computer won't let me.. darn that Centris 610"

Liz_Altieri asks such as?

Maureen: " I am in the process of creating a homepage for my other

moderism class that meets on Wednesdays. It is indeed Siegle's class. Katy,

what are you doing for that class? Anything web related?"

Matthew: "Which site are these?"

Abby_Legg: "Can you see cool 3-D images on those virtual sites?""

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "The last section on the medialinks page. MOOs, Chats, and

Virtual Togetherness."

Matthew: "Well I have used a moo..."

Katy: "I've heard so many spooky stories about people who got addicted

to the chat rooms... ick. They are fun, but no replacement for REAL people"

Liz_Altieri: "oh, we haven't gone there yet. Talk about getting lost

and distracted, there was so much stuff to visit!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Does knowing about how Humongous Entertainment produced their

CDRom change your perspective of what you seen in the way of sites, CDRoms,

games, etc.?"

Katy: "THere is a lot more to it than sticking in the CD and playing

the game. So much goes into the disc... very interesting read"

Matthew: "I was addicted to a MUD my freshman year and almost failed

out. In fact I did fail Kaye's fresman english class."

Katy: "WhOOOPs Matthew!"

Abby_Legg: "I know people who have failed out because of MUD.""

Liz_Altieri: "That's pretty scary"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Well, I think these pages will be a database that can be accessed

from now on, so play away with all the stuff the class has done this semester."

Jeff_Stuart: "I think I've addicted at times to this computer. Any

studies out there shown this as a problem? Implications for children?"

Maureen: " I know people who almost failed out because of some game

called SimCity."

Kaye_Graham: "All is forgiven. If I had known then what I know now, I

would have been more understanding!"

Matthew: "There have actually been a few MUD related deaths. These

are usually people who stay up for days and days and tehn try to drive..."

Matthew: "Thanks. :)"

Liz_Altieri: "Ben wants you to know about IRC (Internet relay chat},

you can talk to people from any country any where and its all free."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Really Matt? Not some urban legend?"

Matthew: "nope."

Katy: "JMU has that IRC stuff. Tech doesn't. ... booh"

Liz_Altieri: "anybody can have it who wants to. any one want info?"

Matthew: "The guys who live across the hall from me are ALWAYS on IRC.

I mean ALWAYS even when they are not watching it they are there and people

can beep them..."

Katy: "I do I do Liz"

Kaye_Graham: "Did anyone read today about the list of "most wired"

colleges and univ.--Tech wasn't on it. I was shocked."

Matthew: "I was also suprised by that."

Maureen: " I saw that article in the Roanoke TImes. How can we be the

most wired city in the US and not be mentioned?"

Liz_Altieri: "you can get a client for IRC (kinda like a browser for

the Net) at http://www.mirc.co.uk This is for IBM people only I will

have to check on the mac one"

Abby_Legg: "I heard about that and I saw a report on the news about

how Tech couldn't figure out why it wasn't on the list.""

Elizabeth_Pandolfo:"What!!!!! We're not on it? I'm shocked. And we're the most

wired city in America."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo grins

Liz_Altieri: "info courtesy of Mr. Computer by my side of course!"

Jeff_Stuart: "Place us in DC, California, or New York instead of Bburg...."

Katy: "Everyone just assumes that we are THE most wired too cool to be

even on that silly ol list!"

Abby_Legg: "That"

Katy: "IT's b/c no one has EVER heard of Tech... unless they are HOKIES!"

Abby_Legg: "Oops. That's right, Tech is too cool for everyone.""

Liz_Altieri: "only 65% of students had computers it said?"

Kaye_Graham: "No credit given to the library and VTLS--which now other

schools copy and use"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo:"You're kidding? Only 65%? Is that how they judged, by the # of

students with computers?"

Liz_Altieri: "I know that when I required my students to e-mail me

last semester, more than half were getting their own addresses at VT for

the first time!!"

Abby_Legg: "I think unless students need the internet for a class,

they don't bother with it."

Kaye_Graham: "Surely our wonderful labs all over campus give so much

access to students without them."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "It's much easier to access from home, unless you're required for

a class to do Net stuff."

Matthew: "There are some colleges that inculde a computer in the price

of tuition so they would be 100% wired then. "

Liz_Altieri: "And this semester I required everyone do look for

stories or info about disability on the Web. I'll be interested in seeing

what they turn up."

Abby_Legg: "I think students would be surprised how much is on the

internet if they looked."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Anyway, we've gotten slightly sidetracked, so any last questions

or comments before dispersing in a few minutes? "

Liz_Altieri: "Thanks for all the wonderful sites and links. Great

future resources!"

Matthew: "she is in the other room."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "She's in the other room, since Dr. Kelley had technical difficulties."

Jeff_Stuart: "How do we address the adult material being accessed by

kids at schools? The librarian caught a boy accessing Playboy last week."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "We'll talk about censorship next week, and you have a host of

interesting things to read about it."

Matthew: "That is a topic for next time. Way too long for now."

Liz_Altieri: "Hah! playboy is the least of it! Ben claims we received

porno as junk mail becuse of some link that left us wide open."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "We'll spend half of next week on censorship, and half of next

week on tech and its future."

Matthew: "cool."

Tan: "Is there a final project for this section Elizabeth?"

Liz_Altieri: "yes, I look forward to talking about it next weeek. Go

into the Montgomery County schools site - they have a policy that you'll

find interesting about use of internet."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Nope. That's why there's so much reading and surfing."

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Thanks Liz."

Tan nods.

Jeff_Stuart: "Thanks for the links Elizabeth! See everyone."

Tan: "Bye all!"

Elizabeth_Pandolfo: "Bye!"